Enlightenment and the Righteous Mind | Steven Pinker and Jonathan Haidt | EP 198
821,164
Published 2021-10-25
Dr Peterson, Steven Pinker, and Jonathan Haidt sit down to discuss truth, how societies function, utopias, the role of religion, & more.
Steven Pinker is a psychology professor at Harvard. He's the author of Enlightenment Now and The Blank Slate. His 12th book, "Rationality," is out now. Dr. Pinker has received many awards and often writes for The Guardian and The NY Times.
Jonathan Haidt is a social psychologist at NYU Stern. His research focuses on the intuitive foundations of morality across cultures. He's the author of The Righteous Mind and The Coddling of the American Mind. His next book, "Three Stories about Capitalism," is expected by 2022.
Follow Steven's Twitter:
twitter.com/sapinker
Read Steven Pinker's book:
stevenpinker.com/publications/rationality-what-it-…
Find more Jonathan Haidt here:
www.thecoddling.com/
Read Jonathan's book:
www.amazon.com/Coddling-American-Mind-Intentions-G…
Jonathan's most recent essay:
www.persuasion.community/p/haidt-monomania-is-illi…
Jonathan's Substack: postliberal.substack.com/p/smartphone-have-not-des…
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[0:00] Intro
[00:18] Jordan introduces guests Dr. Stephen Pinker and Dr. Jonathan Haidt
[02:47] Catching up with the recent research and endeavors of Jonathan Haidt. Elaborating on the framework of moralism versus true and false when viewing the world
[07:00] How cognitive biases lead to a more pessimistic view of the world
[10:30] The problems with the idea of utopia and its beneficial uses when properly inserted into a society's belief (religious) structure
[18:00] Examining the role group religions play in bringing people together
[24:30] Jordan highlights the role he believes Christianity had in turning people's attention to the evil within us all
[29:30] Reflections on Enlightenment Now. How do you engage people towards a higher set of goals without religion as a backbone?
[38:00] Is the world we live in a new frontier based on the expanding influence of the internet and social media on individuals' decision-making?
[48:00] Discussion on the dangers posed by the new world to the endurance of liberal democracies
[56:00] Finding truth in the post-2012 social media revolution
[1:06:00] The rate of change in modern life / Saying goodbye to Dr. Pinker due to time constraints
[1:07:00] The Righteous Mind, Haidt's interpretation of the religious instinct/impulse and why he gets a positive reaction from religious crowds
[1:17:30] The human ability for imitation through learning or exploring
[1:25:30] Religion as a social function? Or an inherent impulse inside us all to find higher states?
[1:29:30] Comparing views on the central uniting principle of groups, societies, or human beings for that matter
[1:33:00] Is the extreme claim that power is the central driving factor of western European civilization grounded in reality?
[1:37:52] Is having a common purpose or shared beliefs a more powerful way of bringing people together?
[1:45:00] Recounting Haidt's research on disgust in both humans and animals
[1:52:00] Exploring any correlation to disgust levels and political beliefs/alliance
[02:02:30] Wrapping up
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All Comments (21)
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Please, have Thomas Sowell on the podcast. It would shine a little bit of wisdom upon us all.
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There's a great quote: "Journalism is a highly non random sample of the worst things that have happened in any given period" (Steven Pinker)
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It’s amazing how Johnathan was able to conduct an interview while flying a helicopter.
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Three of the most profound, well-grounded, intelligent and important public intellectuals of our time in one conversation that we can see for free. We are truly privileged to live in these times.
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Jordan: “Let me see where we disagree” Jonathon: “Yes! That’d be fun” These conversations are very enjoyable.
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Watching from far away Sahara in the heart of Africa. Jordan Peterson is touching more lives than he can ever realize. He is reviving the entire world. I feel like he is the mentor I have always dreamed of. In fact, I learned English because of and through Jordan Peterson. Do I need to say that this encounter changed my life? It did, TOTALY. Jordan Peterson a neo-nazi? Are you kidding me? I am a black African Muslim, and certainly his number one fan. And I have never ever heard something that even resembles a hint of nazi-friendliness on his part. Jordan Peterson showed me how to sort my soul out and take over the world as a consequence. I will abide. I Thank God for your life Mr. Peterson.
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Jonathan Haidt might be the nicest straight forward - no, but, look - interlocutor I have ever witnessed. Great, great pleasure to listen to this.
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The beginning of this podcast made me think of that quote by C.S. Lewis: "Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience."
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"Peterson, Pinker, Haidt" sounds like a prog rock band
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Haven't seen such a strong cast since Goodfellas.
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Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn - “The line separating good and evil passes not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties either – but right through every human heart” “What Solzhenitsyn figured out in the 20th C. Is that if you live a pathological life, you Pathologize your society, and if enough people do that then it’s Hell. And you can read the Gulag Archipelago, if you have the fortitude to do that, and you’ll see exactly what Hell is like. And you can decide if that’s a place you’d like to visit, or even more importantly, if it’s a place you’d like to visit and take all your family and friends. Because that’s exactly what happened in the 20th Century.” — Dr. Jordan B. Peterson
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Pinker and Haidt are two of my favourite intellectuals. Seeing them in the same video is awesome.
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I love having these three together. Enough similarity to build on ideas and close enough differences to really challenge and critique each other's input.
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Three unbelievable minds here. I can barely fathom this epic crossover.
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Pure gold! I love how these guys can have an open discussion while being acutely aware of their own inherent biases
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My father, Steven Pinker recommended me listening to you, Jordan , via your lectures and gave me your book 12 rules about 5/6 years ago and found it incredibly encouraging and useful. now I listen to you as often as I can. now here you are today talking to a different and as far as I know, of no relation of mine, Steven Pinker! My father is gone- so the parallel I know however factually insignificant, bought me a chuckle today and reminded me of a joyful memory of my father. Also great discussion!
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I love Jonathan Haidt! He’s a great listener, an eloquent speaker, emotionally neutral or excited, but never negative. I aspire to be like Haidt.
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These are literally my three favourite psychologists right here! Dream come true. They all have impacted my life more than I could ever explain!
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Steven: data is a must Jordan: let’s conjure inspiring hypotheses Jonathan: looks like I’m in the middle then
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Love it when Jonathan starts his conversation with: “That’s right.” It’s very calming
