A Dialogos with John Vervaeke concerning governance and, in particular, governance of Twitter.

I think I'm in a state of shock, Jordan.... there are no words for how completely resonant this entire conversation was for me. I let my coffee burn away on the stove to pretty much nothing (husband says "Nagasaki-style!"). My heart is racing a million miles an hour and every cell in my body feels like it's trying to take flight. This is my bailiwick, dead centre and expanded into symphony in multiple dimensions. It may take a couple of days to settle down enough to speak/write sense but please expect a long contact piece from me in the near future with links to a number of the things I've been working on, so you can see/experience that resonance for yourself. This may just be my cue to step forward from the 'background' I generally prefer to inhabit. Ok, going to take off somewhere to work through the buzz and get something more communicable in place than the repeating OMFG phrase that seems to have taken over my mind at the moment. (I want to say that you're both brilliant, right on target, incredible human beings... but of course right now I can't tell whether that's a measured response or just confirmation bias on crack!) <3

Amazing, feel like sharing that most Traditional Indigenous cultures are Exemplars of collaborative living and dwelling in virtue aligned with life supporting systems based on a linage of wisdom.

Thank you both very much John and Jordan for a different approach of managing in its basic development and design.

Six months ago, as I studied our history, I thought there was no modern parallel to the boldly self-efficacious actions seen previously. This is easily an example of such an action and I'm happy to be alive and aware of it. Happy to chip in a couple sats

First and foremost: what a thrill to remember that we have no idea what's possible. When we release ourselves from performing like 22-year-old males, we don't even know what kind of infinite games we might play. What an offer :) So much coming up for me here, and I'm looking forward to being in Austin together. For now, I'll offer just 3 more points: 1) On the proof of non-addiction to Twitter: I wonder whether people would game it by logging off right before the deal ends, thereby not spending much time off Twitter. To prevent that, it might be worth tying the amount of time people spend off Twitter to the stake they get. 2) On the battle between Enlightenment and modernity: it speaks precisely to our current predicament with truth. 3) On the evolution of Twitter as a dialogic commons: a question I've been asking (and just asked Jim Rutt on his show) is — what metrics can we track to know that Twitter is moving in the right direction? I'm jumping from the design of the design space to the design of Twitter itself, but I think we're ready to hypothesize about metrics, which themselves will evolve. Two trackable phenomena I heard from you were: integration of ideas (John) and addressing diversity (instead of performing it; Jordan). The question of starting metrics might be a great inquiry for the Stoa.

bless you - this is the discussion we need

Wonderful, thanks.

Great beard!

I love you! I thank you deeply. Without you it is not possible.

The context in which IQ tests arose is so important, yet some people seem to be indifferent or dismissive of it. Nora Bateson has been mentioning the connection eugenics has to the discipline of statistics and codifying the human (which includes IQ). And Tyson Yunkaporta mentions how the Prussians used eugenics and its 'scientific backing' to push their methods in military systems (and schooling systems, which was then adopted by the US). This 'science-backed' codification must have been incredibly useful for the military industrial complex and Game A.

Philosopher 👑 king. To govern you must willing to be governed. The true ruler does not seek their own advantage. Thanks 👍

Excellent work ! 👏

Someone please share this with Jordan Peterson! The ascension of the adolescent male in Canada -> Mackenzie-King, Trudeau Sr., Trudeau Jr. It is also tracks well with H.W. Bush -> Clinton -> W. Bush... These conversations are a compass that clarifies the we are going in. Many thanks

The distinction between coordination, and collaboration is an excellent one. Thank you both for continuing your work together.

28:00 we rubbed the lamp with the enlightenment...a few centuries of wish fulfillment later....we're left with quite the genie.

I think I get the connection between Prometheus and Utopia, but I would love to better understand the connection between enlightenment and nostalgia, if there was supposed to be one?

Having mulled over this governance thing I still think that should be separated from ownership: it should be self run. Have 4 choices for a comment say on twitter or youtube, that the commenter selects and is shown by the color of their username. Other members of that temporary group (that have commented on that topic and chosen for themselves a specific position to comment from) can merit (rate) your comment, but not people in other groups although of course they can comment. Each group is self governing, even the radical group, and the watchdog group runs things because they like to see things running well, they are self rated as well, and another reward for them is they get to up their game. My choice for the 4 groups are opinion, expert, watchdog and artist. This could work for online voting for presidents etc with AI and with these 4 self chosen categories that inspire thought having a comment space and so....

I'm paused at 9 minutes as Meta is mentioned, because I know what's coming I think. It's about right to ownership as feudalism (perpetuated in suburbs and in Meta now I think) vs the commons. So the way I can see just today of how to fix a town or city is to offer an alternative to the right to ownership, not in the bits of property but the town itself. The way is to do exactly what the dialogos talks do, what John Vervaeke has done by having, instead of one big thing (object), having a necklace of objects where each object forms and reforms. The through line connects the pearls. In the case of a town, a necklace of food forests bought in the way described for buying twitter, thru public interest, also with public help thru the government since they usually own properties, and this a necklace laid across the town to divide it and perhaps later quarter it. You don't have to buy the whole town, just provide wildlife corridors, shelter and food. This will help to fix that facet of the meaning crisis, and potentially the part that always being online is bringing to the table. Perhaps adapt this strategy? What it does is the same as John, not becoming a more focused, bigger yet simplified object like Jordan Peterson riding a bigger, simplified crowd response. That is still powerful, but when people align their being (awareness object) to it, the false power offered is attractive to a diminished person, diminished because of the simplification from a need of efficiency in an inefficient system. First neighborhoods growing too large and distant, then products replacing innate power along with modern materials simplifying response diversity, and now metaverse pretending to be a neighborhood again, then products will be asserted etc. The juvenile dance. On with the show! Paused again a few minutes later...if Twitter is halved and quartered by connected groups, like a unit circle, there could be another throughline on the z axis. Online it would resemble a glade, a clearing in a forest with sunlight and trails leading off of it, like a commons in the commons. The food forest icon marketplace. This could be also the real connection to where towns etc physical communities are fixed by the insertion of a necklace of small urban food forests or in rural areas, the same as a wildlife corridor. The marketplace for that, to live, work, enjoy and own such as a living philosophy, the ownership of temporary and connected objects that obey efficiency in the design because that's where it seems to go wrong in the past. Buying twitter and not doing this will perpetuate the problem: Not buying twitter and doing this (I think) will fix the problem, or buy it and fix it this way.

The idea that fight or flight physiology causes faster cognitive outsourcing at the cost of deeper analytical ability and thus the cost of greater understanding of probability, corelates with the successful couples therapy researcher John Gottman's findings, and the science suggesting it is briefly mentioned in the audiobook I am listening to: I've noticed from listening to half of Never Split the Difference which is a book about the career techniques of the former top international FBI hostage negotiator, that people appear more likely to have Dialogos-- a term I would argue might be synonymous with "virtuous probability extraction", when there is a mutual sense of both physiological safety (lowering of fight or flight physiology) and a mutual sense that autonomy is respected-- this parallels with attachment theory and how, from cradle to grave, a pattern appears where people need physiological safety or security to explore, and exploration or autonomy to be physiological secure-- so there is an oscillation of empathy in a parent to a child towards whether they need more safety or autonomy in the present moment depending on age and circumstance, and this same agapic love arguably must be pursued in humanity's relationship to itself for maximal meaning in life. Maximizing meaning in life through social media seems best done, in part, by virtuously locating and amplifying the voices of people who cause greater senses of physiological safety and autonomy to any particular person while communicating the message of their particular digital tribe(s), and pursuing raising understanding and awareness of how to communicate in a way that causes greater senses of physiological safety and autonomy in others, to create more of the people we want to locate based on the current evidence that they are good for the system. And such social media should have a user interface that is heavily agreed upon as being as beautiful as possible, in part because objective beauty to the extent it exists seems to contain the symbolism of hope that is legitimately felt as a truth, which raises physiological safety, which raises time, attention, and energy spent on analysis. I would argue that "analysis" is synonymous with innate probability deduction that is severely limited by all the flaws of being human where we aren't adequately exploring these flaws in order to raise our ability to deduce probable truth, in part, due to much of our culture working through us to cause the absence of more deeply, existentially felt senses of physiological safety and autonomy.

When are you writing a constitution? You certainly have the mind for it. Seems like the next obvious step for civium.. IN THE BEGINNING WAS THE WORD, AND IT WAS GOOD.