Why you SUCK at writing: Magic Systems

Wonder if I should do a video about hard magic and soft magic since some people seem to be confused about my advice here. The advice I'm giving applies to both types of magic systems. Even hard magic systems should have ambiguity, debate, and speculation. Even FMA, one of the hardest magic systems in fiction, often left portions of that magic system as a mystery. In fact, a great deal of the show and the adventure of FMA has to do with uncovering the mysteries of alchemy and the creation of a philosopher's stone. This is an example of how you can apply my advice to a hard magic system. I'm not advocating for soft magic systems, I'm advocating for not YAPPING about your magic system until i'm bored out of my mind!

I personally like it when people in the story sound, act and look like they did their homework on the magic system

I have noticed that most magic systems favor intelligence to use them effectively it's probably because magic systems are systems and the more you understand a system the more effectively you can use it.

I think it would be really interesting if you had have two different magic users that have different theories about how magic works and so they actually fight with the same magic system almost completely differently because of their own beliefs about the magic system too bad I don't see a lot of stories using that idea.

Bro just baited me into watching a Freiren glazing video

I loved that part at 0:00 where it says “Premieres in 6 hours”

While giving your magic system an air of mystety does have some narrative benefits... I dont think that's the only way to go, as there is an appeal to treating it as a science. Namely the more well defined a magic system works, then there is more potential engagement with the viewers, as they can actually join in and theorize on its application. Sorta how it's more engaging to watch a mystery story, when there are actual clues that the audience can use to decipher it. Whereas if a magic system is shrouded in too much mystery with no clear rules, it can appear too much of a Deus ex Machina, which will rob the impact of scenes, as it might feel unearned without appropriate buildup.

You could have categorised magic system in two parts and name it Hard magic system and soft magic system, But you choose to call one better than others based on your personal liking

idk, man. There are hard and soft magic systems for a reason, and both ends of the spectrum have their own advantages and disadvantages. I prefer to write harder magic systems because it gives the main characters tools to confront obstacles and clear objectives to strive for (get better at it so they have more tools at their disposal), but I don't think of soft magic systems as lesser because of my preferences

Yeah, I disagree. I like soft magic systems, but strict magic systems can be just as cool. I recommend Brandon Sanderson's books; they tend to have hard magic systems and are awesome. I also disagree with you on what makes science fun. Testing ideas hands-on is cool and I like it a lot, but more than that, understanding concepts and relating them to each other to reveal insights into how stuff works, that's the thing that made me like science and it's why I have enteres an engineering course, which I'm completing in a couple months. Storytelling is awesome, but inctricate knowledge and detail is also awsome; they can be engrossing in different ways and in different scenarios and to different people in different moods.

This seems like a video of someone pushing their very specific opinion and tastes as fact, as if there is no other way to achieve the exact same satisfaction in which they achieve with specific thing; basically what I’m trying to say, this is a Frieren glazing video ❤.

I don't think stories like Frieren, Harry Potter, A Song of Ice and Fire or Lord of the Rings have Magic "Systems". They 100% DO have magic. That's pretty obvious. But they don't have "systems" for that magic. They magic just is. There are no rules to extrapolate upon beyond "this happened so it's possible, this didn't happen so it's not possible". A magic SYSTEM requires a system from which you can extrapolate and infer information from the established rules. How much you can work with it determines if it's soft or hard system, but they are still systems.

Midi-chlorians and the Force are not the same thing. Midi-chlorians is simply a way of the Force weaving it’s way through other people, through a microscopic organism. They also determine one’s connection to the Force, depending on how high or low it is.

Always remember though, when you know and understand the rules, you can break the rules.

So Science and Mathematics are the soft magic systems of the real world. Wow. Banger revelation, Scrit

i beg to disagree on the ´one shall not explain magic like science, it must be magic´ becouse you can but it will make things harder, the thing about science is that the deeper you go the more you realice we kinda dont know why the principles are there, like gravity we dont know why it is there how it works and so on, you can explain magic and make a fairly hard sistem and just stop at any point and say we just dont know more. But a sistem like that has to be complex enough to allow nuance, in the same way a colection of gears and simple parts can make something as complex and beautiful as a car or a fine tuned musical instrument, i think the jjk is a good one, the inhereted stuff is unpredictable but it tends to personified the character, most importantlly jjk has a super strong base for everything. I find everyrhing in beetwin its gonna fall a bit flat, i personally i dislike HP magic couse it dosent fell like a sistem, just a colection of flashy tricks, like how did the first wisard came acros it? i could continue on hp but i dislike everything about it lol. srry 4 bad english tho, i loved the video tho im just a bit of a nerd

Warning: This is a long one. Also, excuse my gramar and writing. I'm not a native speaker and I write this in a hurry. (Also, i write this half way through the video. If these points are explained, I MIGHT go back and edit this comment) Well, it depends. As a reader, knowing the fundamentals of how a magic system works isn't really bad. But hiding/adding additional systems/rules that expand it and the readers understanding of how those rules can be used is, in my opinion, the better approach than just keeping the inner workings vague (i think that was what you are saying). It allows new revelations to be understood by readers without looking like some random "a wizard did it" event. The problem with mediclorians was not that it explained the force. It only made ones connection to it meassureable and explained why some people were force sensitive and others weren't. The problem was that it didn't add anything. Outside the novels, mediclorian transplantaion or the removal of them to take away the force, like aang did to the firelord, was never shown. It was a "on cute" addition whose consequences were never explored. The force itself was still just as mysterious as before. Just explained why people could use it. Another good example for me for magic as LITERAL science is Full Metal Alchemist: The rules are: You can't create nothing without giving something, an alchemist needs access to either tectonic energy or must understand the flow of mnatural energy between objects to use it, and you need to know the inner workings of the effect you want to invoke and then transfer it into an transmutaion circle. Why a ring? Cause it represents the circle of life. So when father just casually disrupts the transfer of tectonic energy, and only xing people still hav epowers, we can extrapolate, even if we were had been never told. It makes the Phylosopher stone way more broken, by breaking the rules without breaking them. But those are all additions that were given after the reader knew the basics. So , yes, I think treating magic like science is really good. Give people the basics and every new thing that either uses the system to do something new and crazy, or beliveably brakes the rules is even more hype. Yes, It might take away the mystery of "how did you do this?" but it adds a completely new dimension to the story. Reader participation and rewarding them for paying attention. Even maybe seeing new powers and twists coming and being hyped for it. Because you can only have the "uuh magic" feeling only so often before it all starts blending together. But noone will mistake JJKs system with alchemy or with bending. And noone will mistake it with Mistborns strange metal based magic. Yet the I can't tell you a single thing about tokliens magic or tell the difference to harry potter outside you need wands and words and for one, magic sometimes happens. And that is ok. But if I want that feeling, I go to tolkin, or maybe wheel of time. I want that feeling, but flashy? Potter, Or maybe the Secret History Books. But that's just it. I think it becomes way more magical if people know what the rules are. Because just like with writing, if you know the rules, thinking about it once the story is over will people still exited, and not wondering why gandal didn't just plow the way, aside from "the plot must happen". It also helps with character progression, seeing how they figure out new things with just the basic knowledge. And you can still have the mysterious feeling. Maybe you can enchant things with your science by binding a will to it. and the stronger the will, the stronger the spell. But you can only make it do stuff that are possible. So no Object unbraking itself, but opening a door on its own when a certain word is spoken. So, yeah, having a core set of unchangable rules that can not be broken or interpreted in a different way to change the entire basis is in my opinion the better approach. Having hidden additions that recontextualize them, but keeping the core rules intact. Like, noone will ever dispute that 1+1=2. That is a core rule to me. unshakeable. Unless the other person if on drugs, but that'S your problem then, not mine. They are in a different dimension at that moment. It is a good video, but I think your logic is a bit flawed on this one. I agree with some of it, especially about not explaining every little detail ( i like to just imply it), but the core argument as I understand it isn't entirely right to me. That is of course all based on the fact that I understood the central argument correctly. If not, Well, i stand by my core arguments, but they are not in oppositon then. But if you make a "magic is science" setting, plase make sure you don't just go: "yeah, everything you knew before was kinda wrong". Thanks Korra season 2. I still hate you for that. Fucking kite.

Trying to pretend that science and magic are separate is a fundamental misunderstanding of both. Magic is just additional physical laws of that world like gravity, light, mass, energy, and etc. Science is not something that physically exist, as people often confuse technology with science. Science is a process and way of viewing the world which is why the full name is "The scientific method" because it's a method of learning not some monolithic thing. When mages/wizards and such research how mana works, is managed, manipulated to form different spells, make magical devices, and etc. they are potentially engaging in the scientific method. It's very simple you state how you think something works, you make a test that will show your assumption is either right or wrong, this is the most important part as the test has to be able to show true or false. With the results then helping to expanding your knowledge of how the world works. How this applies to magic system which are just additional physical laws is that the reader doesn't need to completely understand the rules and neither do the people in the world as finding out correct information means you have to ask the right questions as if the question is wrong for your test the results could mislead you as something happening. Take Avatar for example when Toph realizes that Metal is just another type of earth and learns to bend it as well because her perspective on it changed. Since we know even more about the world than they do we know there shouldn't really be any separation of the elements as it's all just different states of matter. People often view depictions of earlier societies with amusement when they hear some of their beliefs like everything being made of the 4 Elements, but really without any knowledge of atoms how would one explain the 4 states of Matter? Fire = Plasma / Air = Gas / Water = Liquid / Earth = Solid. The since some materials changed states easier than others they similar assumed the mix of the elements was different in those materials. It wasn't too unreasonable of an assumption given how little they knew at the time of the rest of physics. And it's possible a magic system is the same way that they barely scratch the surface thus making misconceptions on how things work. Also like stated in the video cold doesn't exist but is simply a lack of heat, yet we see things like cold guns or cold spells which in order to achieve means using something that lacks a lot of heat itself just as pouring liquid nitrogen on something to freeze it. All that heat leaves the item and goes into the liquid nitrogen. Similar to cold, darkness doesn't really exist but is simply the absence of light. Thus anything that would create the perception of darkness spreading would most likely simply be a cloud of some opaque substance or material that doesn't reflect the light, such as vantablack. But to the uneducated that don't know the properties of light would assume it is "creating darkness". "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." Arthur C Clark Magic is just physical laws we don't understand yet and can be just as confusing as some of the ones we do sort of understand. Such as light being both a wave and particle, quantum mechanics of a something being in multiple states at once like up and down, left and right, and etc. And just like in the real world as much as we have learned there is still more we don't know. This would be true of any Magic system which is why trying to over explain it would not only ruin the mystery but also not be very realistic as we don't even fully understand all the rules of our own universe despite how advanced we think we are. But that also means that in the world of magic there would be people devoted to studying it and uncovering more of those rules, which begs the question of how far they might go, as we have some horrific stories in our own world of people doing experiments on other people to find out the limits of human tolerance. By keeping things vague for the reader and thus the world it can cause tension for those in the world trying to unlock those secrets even if the author knows the answers already on how something could be achieved. You can even use an unreliable narrator that seems reliable to mislead the reader as everyone thinks something is not possible to create a really dramatic moment and world shattering change in perspective, like with Toph figures out how to Metal Bend which has been shown over and over to be something Earth benders can't do because of the assumption metal is not per of earth.

Personally I don't agree that Frieren has such a good power system, especially if you compare it to the best easy to understand systems in anime/manga (Stands and Alchemy), Frieren has a problem and that is that it is too vague the rule is ''Yes the magician can imagine it so he can do it'' and that makes that the viewer doesn't feel the need to speculate what a magician can do and what not. That JJK's power system explains too much seems to me to be part of its charm, it reminds me of one of my favorite power systems, Nen, and most of the time these explanations can be skipped and you will understand the power well anyway. I think that these explanations at the end serve as an extra for those who want to know how this system works in great detail. Going back to Frieren I think that it is a system that is too vague to stand out and it ends up seeming like it just happens because ''he could imagine it'', I think that a good soft system is something like alchemy, one doesn't think that something came from nowhere because the two most important rules are easy to understand and allow variations, or the stands that are easy to understand but their charm is how they use their simple skills and make them more complex which causes the battle be extremely fun and surprising and I don't think Frieren achieves what these two systems do. Although I think Frieren is an incredible anime, I simply don't think its system is something it even stands out for.

Came here for the thumbnail and read the description, as much as i like frieren i have to disagree with that opinion, cause frieren info dumps too, i remember a couple in the recent Magical test arcs. you need to consider that the two shows use their power systems to highlight different things. JJK's power system exists to facilitate Combat, and the info we are given make the combat more engaging, assuming the info is just useful for power scaling is just odd. some of us don't care about that shit. Full Metal Alchemists power system does the same for its Theme of the Value of life, through the rules of its power system "The law of Equivalent Exchange". Frieren's Power system is used in a lot of cases to show how the Mages have evolved over the course of history, that's why we got an episode about the demon who invented "Zoltraak"( Attack Magic ) and how the mages learnt it and overcame it. thats why we got information about mages switching to manipulating elements instead of using Stronger but more complex defensive magic. remember when Edel the 2nd class hypnosis specialist, spent time explaining the Magic system as she strategized on how to fight sense's Clone, or when we cut away from Ubel vs Sense's clone to explain how her magic works and how she had an advantage over Sense's Magic, these are also info Dumping. if your idea was applied to a show like Death Note, you would say that the Death Note is a poorly written power system, because a lot of time is taken to explain the rules of the Death Note, but this information is important so that strategies used by the characters later make sense. Info Dumping is a necessary evil, finding interesting ways to explain the abilities is a problem all writers have to solve. as far as i'm JJK does it well enough, and Still delivers more interesting combat with its power system. Thanks for reading, now I'll watch the video. I'd love to hear what you think.