The PROBLEM With The NEW Dragon Ball Super Forms

Tldr: plot driven transformations vs marketing driven transformations

R.I.P. Akira Toriyama

I really loved GT for how Super Saiyan 4 was portrayed. Instead of the Super route where they'd unlock a new form and it became redundant quickly, 4 was the peak of power in GT and nothing above it- minus Fusion of course. It just felt like this immovable power whereas a godly state of Super Saiyan just felt... average.

Maybe this is just me being cynical, but I think a big contributing factor to why we have so many new forms in Super is to help with toy sales. Edit: Good to know I'm not being cynical.

I wish we got more techniques and less power ups, also R.I.P Akira Toriyama

“Super Saiyan 3 never won a fight” Wrath of the Dragon: Am I a joke to you?

What I liked about GT is that ssj4 was the best form, but Goku would still be losing to villains even in that form. The way to overcome villains wasn’t to get a form stronger than ssj4, it was with strategy & the idea that everybody has a weakness. Figuring out the villain’s weakness & exploiting it is usually what gave the win. Not including fusion of course. They could go back to beating villains with that recipe so forms don’t become monotonous

The people who work on Dragon Ball Super (at least the show and manga) saw that Z introduced a new SS form every arc, copied that, but didn’t understand why, and didn’t understand that they need to show the training they went through.

One of the biggest issues is that they would soon be facing guys that were instantly able to compete with/outclass these impossibly strong forms.

I think super saiyan blue, super saiyan god, and rose are unnecessary. Its just too many colors man. It feels like they exploited the idea of changing hair colors. Too many colors. I wish they kept it simple. Like ssj1,2 and 3 and Ultra instinct as the final form

Imo we should've had ssg in both movies but then have blue in the universe 6 and Goku black arcs

"In 2 movies, we got 2 new forms. That's way too fast" - sums it up pretty good

My issues with each form: SSJG: Should've gotten more time to shine. SSJB: Should've been introduced later and given more unique abilities. UI: I actually have no issues with this form, I actually really like how it's foreshadowed. 🔥 I even really like the Saiyan Instinct of TUI.

Remember, the average screen can show up to 16 million colors, we have room for a few more transformations

I have a love hate relationship with the forms cause I liked how originally the super saiyan forms had grades and each grade had their own draw backs and advantages But I honestly don’t see or feel the difference in super saiyan blue from just regular super saiyan’s. To many of the forms are just “it makes you stronger and nothing else like beast gohan, I love gohan but it’s just like…..what? Like what does this do? But here comes the love cause broly’s forms are what actually feels like a natural saiyan evolution, harnessing the power of the great ape while in human form was honestly one of the most delicious bits of saiyan lore we’ve ever gotten cause the great ape form rocks and GT was right to incorporate it into the super forms. And things like ultra instinct & ego, they actually operate on different mentalities and actively changes how the user fights. With ultra instinct being more evasive and ego being a giant pain sponge

In the original manga almost every 2 years there was a new transformation for the Saiyan's. Super Saiyan came out in 1991, Super Saiyan 2 came in 1993, Super Saiyan 3 appeared in 1994(1 year transformation). So this is just consistency with the series especially going from Super Saiyan god to Super Saiyan god Super Saiyan(Super Saiyan Blue). There are a lot of forms but that's how these big companies want to capitalize on merchandise sales toys, clothes, video games, etc. etc.

I think they need to go back to making Dragon Ball about Technique and Martial Arts instead of just transformations.

Its so annoying just how close a lot of these forms get to being really good. Dragon ball forms now need to be unique to stand out from the rest, and have a reason to exist. Super never quite hits both at the same time and it’s so frustrating. God - needs a ritual to get to, which clashes with Goku’s character, which is great. Makes the form unique by using God Ki which is great. But then God Ki never gets any depth, and Goku has regular ki in God form…for some reason. The manga and ToP anime try to make it a little bit more unique, but it is too little too late Blue - Anime gives it perfect Ki control, which a few times becomes relavent, but for the most part becomes a non factor. God + Super Saiyan is also enough to warrent its’ existance. Manga does it a lot better, with Perfected SSB being one of the coolest parts of Super and really sells the concept. But it overstays its’ welcome and gets boring in both by not keeping up with these concepts UI - the transformation itself doesn’t make any sense, but it honestly doesn’t matter because the focus is on the technique itself. The imperfected UI is actually a lot cooler because the lack of perfect movement makes the perfect movement noticable. When every attack is supposed to be natural in Mastered UI, it stops feeling that way (just compare MUI Goku vs Jiren and Goku vs Frieza and point out what the difference is). Ultra Ego - By far best transformation in Super, finally connects Vegeta to Beerus (the whole premise of Super), great gimmic, ties into his character arc perfectly Beast Gohan - worst transformation in Super. No explaination on it, no interesting gimmic with it (the manga already turned the anger of it into a joke), it’s just bland

Honestly the SSG form was a missed opportunity to let non-Saiyans catch up a bit in power. I like the idea that the first God form Goku attains is a completely new form detached from Super Saiyan, and throughout Super he can try and combine the two ability (which creates the blue form) I don’t think there’s too many forms, I just think they feel way too easily gained now. It should be more of a struggle for these power ups to happen but they honestly seem like random chance.

I like how Super is trying to get everyone to go their own unique way of getting stronger, and would keep that concept. Goku should have gone down the path of an Angel by training with Whis to master SSJ3 first, then he is trained in the arts of Divine Ki to obtain SSJG, and after that focus on Ultra Instinct. It should be a gradual evolution where he stays with these forms for a while to master them as a way of mastering himself. Vegeta should follow a similar progression, but going down the path of a God of Destruction. Instead of getting SSJG like Goku, he should get SSJB, a mutation of Divine Ki that will set him on the tracks of unlocking his God of Destruction Mode. Instead of becoming a complete God like Goku, Vegeta wants to retain as much of his lineage as possible, going against the harmonious nature of an Angel. He can still keep the grades of SSJB, but once he has figured out how to go beyond that form, it evolves into Ultra Ego, a huge step into uncovering his God of Destruction Mode. After some training from Beerus, he eventually reaches the true potential of his path to power. Piccolo should have been had at least one new form in Z, but since we're keeping to Super, I would have Piccolo also training with not only Whis, but Beerus as well, achieving two forms that differ from each other. His ultimate form a result of his training with Whis and his Orange form a result of his training with Beerus in their versions of Divine Ki. Bulma can just upgrade the Androids with Divine Ki and/or Magic to give them an easy boost while upgrading their cybernetic parts with more powerful and durable materials. I hate Beast Gohan and would prefer it if they continued for him to go down the path of a human with his Unlocked Potential form. So, instead of getting a new form, he just further develops what he has and possibly even learns magic to acquire a true Mystic form. I'm not completely sold on the idea myself, but it could be interesting. That is to say, all of these should be built up over plenty of chapters/episodes to give a larger satisfaction in watching these characters achieve new levels of power. Perhaps after Goku goes SSJG against Beerus and loses, everyone puts it back into gear in fear and excitement of there being even more powerful beings out in the cosmos beyond their comprehension. Goku is trying to figure out ways to further SSJG on his own, but Vegeta takes the humble approach to be mentored by Whis and Beerus, being brushed off by the latter until Vegeta stands against Whis's methods of training in order to maintain what little pride he has left in his heritage. This catches the attention of Beerus who takes an interest in Vegeta's resolve to find his own way to power, begrudgingly taking the Prince of All Saiyan's under his wing. With everyone on Earth still trying to find a way to increase their power, Frieza arrives, having been brought back to life by the Dragon Ball's from a subordinate or maybe even Cooler (who has been keeping to his own side of the universe until the death of his family, keeping a critical eye on the Z-Fighters, gathering information while preparing his plan to take them all out). Aware that Goku has obtained a new power that puts him in the realm of the Gods, Frieza had been training his ass off since his revival, equaling the power of the Z-Fighters (minus Goku in his SSJG form). Having prepared for his eventual defeat at the hands of the Saiyan Born on Earth, Frieza leads them all into a false security of defeat, allowing Frieza's secret weapon (or just Cooler) to take Goku out. With the Dragon Team on the verge of defeat, Vegeta arrives in his SSJB form to defeat Frieza and his forces. Following this event, Goku and Piccolo, maybe some others, opt to learn Divine Ki as well. Goku wants to learn from Whis, believing the Angel would be the best teacher to help him master SSJG, while Piccolo decides to learn from both, applying their versions of Divine Ki to himself. Whis forces Goku to master SSJ3 first, while teaching Piccolo on how to obtain and control Divine Ki. I'm not entirely sure which arc I'd want them to master their current forms and then achieve new ones, but it should all be foreshadowed and built up for the audiences enjoyability.