Is Cyberpunk actually Punk?

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“A guy walks up to me and ask “what’s punk?” So I kicked over a garbage can and said “that’s punk!” So he kicks over a garbage can and says, “that’s punk?” And I say, “No that’s trendy!”——Billie Joe Armstrong

Is there a term for the phenomenon of adding "punk" as the suffix of a genre? I'd call it "Punktuation".

Not quite related, but I am baffled at the lack of trains in steampunk. It's always airships, boats, or automobiles. Seriously, where are the trains? Am I missing something?

In case it is not obvious, I like trains and would likely enjoy a steampunk novel with a focus on railroading and have one or several of the main characters be an engineer or something adjacent to that. Or just have railroads be integral to the worldbuilding.

I like that there's been a new suffix that can describe the aesthetic without the narrative themes, and that's core. If something is cyber without the punk aspects, it's Cybercore. Cottagecore, Steamcore, etc. If there's no elements of punk it shouldn't be called punk. It's perfectly okay to just have the aesthetics of the setting, hoping calling things core outside of just Cottagecore keeps catching on.

Thanks. I think part of what happened is that once cyberpunk became well-known as a genre, people began to read 'punk' as 'aesthetic' instead of 'attitude'. This now seems to be the common understanding within media, thus becoming easily transferable to other sub-genres. tavi.

I think Steampunk can be meaningful in a punk way but only in the rare stories where the setting is used to explore the general dissatisfaction felt by workers around the turn of the 1800s to early 1900s such as the labor movements and strikes in America at the time being as there were very little laws about it and a lot of worker exploitation, violent strike breaking, etc, and using that setting and angst as a parallel to more modern issues involving these subjects.

Personally I find there is another "punk" genre out there that nobody mentions by name, but I call it Adventure Punk, because there are wayyyyy too many fantasy settings based around Adventurers as a social class and neccesity of the world for to have not become its own thing.

I’ve used the term “kiddie-punk” to describe games like Earthbound, One-Shot, and Lisa. It has a childish, cutesy aesthetic but tackles surprisingly mature themes. In Earthbound’s case, very subtly, or in Lisa’s case, very brazenly. I’m not sure is punk is truly the right word, but the term feels very…. right.

Cyberpunk is one of the more fascinating genres of the 'punk' umbrella for sure. It's one of those subgenres whose history is much more fascinating than the genre itself. However, it is at the same time the very genre a casual would think of when hearing the word punk - for good reason. Cyberpunk's history is rooted in the ideals of sex culture, substance abuse, corporate tyranny and the general idea of nearly everyone being the underdog, all except for the special individual who attempts to rise above but fails miserably. It's generally what such a loaded word like punk makes you imagine.

I'd argue that in a way, Cyberpunk has earned the 'punk' umbrella, as nowadays it is the standard people probably expect from a genre called 'punk'.

I'm glad you mentioned Solarpunk specifically in how it fits with the depth of the word. A lot of my respect for the punk movement flourished when I realised it wasn't about just being a loud contrarian with directionless anger, but a very much directed anger turned into practical action. I think Solarpunk as a genre and as an aesthetic really runs with that side of punk - the world is better now, but the struggle is ever present, and it looks the same as always: one small corner of the world at a time.

I always thought that the "punk" part had to be about rebellion of some sort, and it might be against some sort of institution, like the British Empire in Victorian England, or the corporatism in Cyberpunk, but it can refer to any other situation where themes of rebellion are relevant. And they don't have to be rebellions against institutions that exist today.

When I saw Nausicaä as the illustration for solarpunk I was a bit surprised (pleasantly) but when I paused to think on it I realized how true it is! Despite pre-dating the term, it absolutely fills the role. Even when I was a child borrowing the VHS from the library, those ideas had come through to me, as much as a child can understand. Why don't more communities have power generated by the powerful forces of nature in their environment? (All those windmills look so cool!) Why do princess stories tend to focus on a figurehead getting with some other figurehead when they could show a leader trying to do what's best for their people? (She gathers the resources that are needed AND helps find new ones! And I'm glad Asbel was there just as a supporting role and Nausicaä seems primarily interested in talking to him for the purposes of sharing helpful and relevant information.) Why do we have more narratives showing massive interpersonal conflict when exploration of how people work to help each other can be so compelling? (I wish there was more about Nausicaä studying the potential medical uses of plants that are usually toxic.)
Eventually the ideas I had back then led to more and more complex thoughts about what institutions/government can and should do. The Valley has an adventageous geographical position that allows it to focus on developing and maintaining itself, but Pejite does not have as much protection from the Toxic Jungle and is forced to take more aggressive action to keep its citizens safe. However, Tolmekia has let that kind of aggression grow to a point where they see no option other than complete destruction of the Jungle as viable, resources be damned. But they're willing to exploit Pejite's need for protection in order to activate an instrument of the apocalypse that created this setting to reach that end, because imperialism seems to bring violence out of everyone. But let's pretend the apocalypse weapon isn't there: Is the Valley obligated to share their resources? If they do, what happens when there are too many people for the local resources to sustain? If they share their scientific findings instead of their direct resources but the other nations aren't able to make it work in their favor, are they supposed to let the the threat of the Jungle exist for the benefit of the nations that can use it?

Thank you for further deepening my understanding of my favorite movie.

I'm actually in the process of starting a punk band, it's a farmpunk band. I was a farmer for 20 years so just writing what I know!

One aspect of the original usage of punk was within the content of the stories themselves in relation to how socially acceptable cybernetics were. Most of the characters in Neuromancer were people who existed on the fringes of society like drug addicts, mercenaries and hackers. They weren't punks, but they shared the non-comformity of the punk subculture. Today we do have a real parrallel with Cybergoths who draw inspiration from the Cyberpunk aesthetic.

Consequently this is where the term post-cyberpunk came about as writers recognised that if a story has cybernetics normalised them it doesn't have the deviant nature of punk at all. For example Ghost In The Shell is often erroneously called cyberpunk despite the use of cybernetics being not only commonplace but even encouraged; where NOT having augmentation is considered unusual as is often a point of discussion among characters when talking about Togusa. Even Cyberpunk 2077 is edging towards actually being post-cyberpunk but manages to maintain its standing as extensive use of cybernetics is considered socially unacceptable as we have seen with even augmented characters despising Adam Smasher for being barely organic anymore.

So, there's really two ways to use the -punk moniker. The first is to explain that the themes and ideas expressed within the story are not socially acceptable by modern standards and the second is to explain that your story is exploring the events and characters of a subculture within a fictional world and society. And of course it is possible to combine these two definitions in a story that is not only dealing with unacceptable themes in our own society but also does it using a fictional subculture. An almost self-aware narrative.

When I originally had the suffix "Punk" explained to me, is was how the descriptor, (i.e. cyber, steam, splatter,) effected "Fashion." To advance it further, it is how the descriptor effects "culture."

Can you guys do a video on the cattlepunk genre? (When the western genre and steampunk genre mix together to make something awesome)

Update: Nowhere productions made a video on it in his "what's up punks?" Series; So i found more then enough in there! (And more in his other videos in that series)

Punk is about the system that the word is tied to and how the characters go against or are sabotaged by them, it's the feeling that something isn't right.

There's actually been a bit of a movement lately to stop devaluation of the word punk, and try to use it specifically in context of fiction that to some degree represents values of the punk movement, so ones critical or deconstructing authority and social structures. Personally I also like using it for fiction that takes the concept of "high tech, low life", but replace 'tech' with... whatever is the first part of your 'punk'. Magic punk? High magic, low life. Dungeon punk? High fantasy (with dungeons etc), low life. Steam punk? High steam tech, low life. And so on, and so forth.

I think one of the reasons that various ____-punk tags can differ in meaning so much is that these days "punk" can describe a number of different things, be it the social attitude/aesthetic that you mentioned here or a visual aesthetic. And while of course what constitutes "punk" when it comes to visual aesthetics is one that is endlessly debated, it definitely plays a part in why some __-punk genres use the "punk" tag. In fact I would suggest that Steampunk in particular, one way or another - even if the creator didn't perhaps intend it that way, gets its "punk" tag/association more from its visual aesthetic than from a general ideological lean toward the subversive etc. I.e. "Steampunk" carries the look of punk moreso than it necessarily skews toward the ideological tenets thereof. (again, I realize that what people think punk "looks like" varies from person to person - though to some degree the look can be referenced akin to the old description a judge used when it came to describing/defining what constituted pornography, (para) "I can't tell you specifically what it looks like, but I know it when I see it.")