The Rise and Fall Of Paper Mario

‘This series doesn’t need a story’ Meanwhile the Japanese title: “Mario STORY”

if you think SPM had a weak story your snorting glue.

> plays the mario text rpg story games > gets mad that there's text my brother in christ why are you even here

Super paper mario not having a good story???? I actually think it has the best story of all paper marios😅

my brother in paper mario, you're being hugely reductionist in claiming that people just hate the post-TTYD games due to not being TTYD.

"People only hate the new games because they aren't TTYD!" Fans loved Super Paper Mario. Mind you, that had the unfair advantage of being a good game.

How did you manage to not understand the complaints about being Too Papery were because of the fact the original games were just paper as an aesthetic instead of the fundamental material of the world? Nobody in 64 and TTYD are actually Paper, stuff like the transformations in TTYD are curses and can't be done by anyone normally. Making everything genuinely about paper and having realistic arts tools is entirely different from the actually original designs of the originals.

I'm surprised that you didn't mention how Paper Jam had no original characters/locations, and was basically plagued by New Super Mario Bros. syndrome.

Imagine if the Metroid series shifted to where all of the enemies were nothing but Metroids, and the people complaining about that change were told “Erm, but the series is literally called Metroid. What did you expect? You're just mad that it's not Super Metroid” No, I think it's valid that people are upset that what used to be the backdrop became the entire forefront.

I feel like saying "it's not the thousand year door" is a bit of a misrepresentation. I can only speak for myself but I wanted a storyline more like the first 3, and combat like the first 2. And most importantly UNIQUE PARTNERS. That includes Super Mario RPG in that vein. Sticker star and beyond just had wayyyyy too many generic enemies that it felt like the first 3 Paper Mario games were in "the Paper Mario universe" and the latter ones were simply a paper version of the super mario verse. I missed characters like Kammy Koopa, one of the funnest villains ever. Like, why has she never come back in newer Paper Mario games? It's not that we wanted TTYD 2.0, we just wanted something in the realm of the first 2 games. It would also be nice if we didn't just get generic levels like in Sticker Star... or a particular area that took up nearly half of all gameplay time.

The fall did NOT start with Super 😤 Sticker Star is at fault for that ‼️ Super was a phenomenal game

I think the reason why most fans keep wanting The Thousand Year Door is because many of them had grown sick and tired of these strange innovations Paper Mario was going through when what we had before had been perfectly fine and much more preferable. And the fact Nintendo kept ignoring what the fans wanted in favor of changing what Paper Mario was, it was like a constant slap to the face. Sure, some people are willing to just move on and enjoy the newer Paper Mario games, and that's great. But not everyone is happy with what Paper Mario had become, and they long for the day they get a Paper Mario game that was like The Thousand Year Door, not necessarily The Thousand Year Door itself. And after all these years, that longing will turn into anger and bitterness. That's why the remake is so important, it brings back hope that maybe one day there will be another Paper Mario game with a brand new story with TTYD's battle mechanics.

Imagine if Street Fighter 7 came out and it was a shooter. And it’s a GREAT game. But it’s officially SF7, and there’s no word on another 2D Street Fighter game. And then Street Fighter 8 comes out and it’s a 3D fighter. It’s fine… Got decent reviews… but it’s not what Street Fighter fans WANT. They want a 2D fighting game, so they complain. Street Fighter 9 comes out and it’s yet another 3D fighting game. By this point, the 3D Street Fighter games have a fanbase, and they’re pushing back HARD. The 2D Street Fighter fans just want things to go back to what made the series great to begin with. But the 3D Street Fighter fans just say the 2D fans are stubborn and they just want everything to be like Street Fighter 1-6. The 2D fans say “No, we want the series to evolve. We just want it to be a 2D fighting game.” The 3D fans say “It’s still a fighting game. Get over it.” And then arguments over what the series is, should be, and who are “true fans” ensue. This was a problem Nintendo created themselves. They never should’ve deviated from the leveling based RPG style. They split their own fanbase by doing it. If they wanted to make RPGs more focused on paper gimmicks, no partners, less plot, and pointless battles, they should’ve made a “Paper Yoshi” spinoff while still making traditional Paper Mario games.

Also just looking at the enemy types 2004: 1000 year demon 2020: A Stapler

i guess OG Paper Mario fans are just stupid because wanting a good story, good combat, unique and charming characters, settings and writing over overbearing paper mechanics, generic character and setting; and flawed combat system is not a valid opinion i guess 🤷

"Paper Mario got too papery" sounds silly on paper (HAHA GET IT?) but it's true. The first three Paper Mario games use the paper style as simply the aesthetic of the game with some visual gags to go along with the theme. But the world, characters, and story all feel like they're still part of the overarching Mario world with different villages and races of people. Starting with Sticker Star, however, they started running with this idea that the characters were all literally paper beings in a literal paper world when that was never really presented to be the case before. Even the transformations in TTYD are presented as "curses" giving you the ability to do something deemed unnatural to the world. But starting with Sticker Star entire plots of the games began to revolve around paper or some aspect of it (stickers, paint, origami). It turned the series from Paper MARIO into PAPER Mario, if that makes sense. You can't go five seconds without a Toad making reference to being crumbled, folded, flattened, or some other paper-related aspect. I find the paper style and world much more charming when it's simply used as a visual style rather than characters making constant reference and winking at the camera to say how they're made of paper and in a paper world.

I’ve come to see if Super Paper Mario is respected or not Okay I can accept what was said. It ain’t the RPG game anyone expected but for what it actually is it’s actually fantastic Also it has easily the best story of any Mario game. No competition there at all, at least in my opinion

20:51 Nah, I'll fight anyone on this point. Paper Jam was definitely plagued by the generic Mario sickness that was going on for a few years now. I agree that the battle mechanics are what Paper Mario fans wanted the most, but we also wanted the charm and personality that the first two titles had.

The biggest problem with Origami King is that its combat system wasnt a combat system. Its a puzzle system disguised as a combat system. Thats why you cant have any meaningful level ups or badges, because the goal isnt to damage enemies or reduce damage or wait for the right moment to attack or exploit weaknesses... its to solve the puzzle and one shot them. It cant have useful allies in battle, because, again, the game isnt about damage or defense or healing, its about solving the puzzle. And that wouldnt really be a huge problem, it could have been great, but puzzles repeat, and enemies respawn, so the puzzles get to be more about memorizing than solving, which means it gets super boring, fast. And that makes it more worth your time to just skip fights. IMO one simple change could have solved this. If enemies didnt respawn, each enemy would be like a puzzle that needs solved, and then it would be done. They could even incentivize clearing them all out by tracking enemies killed for 100% completion. I actually really liked Origami King, but its one of those games i dont know if I would go back and replay. I know the answers to most of the puzzles, or at least I know them well enough that i could re-learn them pretty easily. So right from the start I would just avoid every fight and end up kinda rushing the game. And for what its worth I also mostly liked Color Splash, but it kind of has the same problem, and I feel could be fixed with the same solution. That and Color Splash should have just had enemy HP instead of the weird color remaining thing.

“Too much paper” is a genuine problem with Sticker Star, Color Splash, and Origami King. They stop using paper as an artistic/gameplay sub-aspect and make it front and center and all-encompassing to a point of it being obnoxious.