Zain Tells MKLeo & Maister Why Ultimate Is Harder To Play Than Melee

Zain playing Ultimate was such a genius content move from him after HBox announced his Ultimate Detox. Super entertaining seeing him interact with all the Ult Top Players

leo only being 23 blew my mind he’s been so good for so long

It’s the most entertaining smash youtube in a long time, and it’s been cool to see melee and ultimate players collaborating

Please Zain, as a Ult and Melee enjoyer. Don't stop playing Ult after 90 days. It's such a genius move as well because you get good exposure from the Ult audience.

I remember Zain from the local College Scene at Virginia Tech. It was called ESports Lounge. This was 2016 and at the time he was the best melee player here. I played friendlies in smash 4 with him for like an hour. Cool guy. I still remember when the TO announced to us at the venue that Zain beat Plup at BigHouse. The Venue exploded lol.

ever since zain did those sketches weve been waiting for him for content dude has extra charisma

Zain has such a great personality

You think zain is L cancelling in ultimate out of muscle memory?

@Maister you gotta be the change you wanna see. Game Theory holds true. If you and other leaders make it a point to do bootcamps or do anything else that would give you a competitive advantage, others will fall in line for fear of being left behind.

I can't wait to see leo and zain team up for melee doubles. Also I just noticed Leo's plushies. Really cute.

I was the guy who beat the icies in coinbox that Zain had to play against, he didn’t throw to fight zain, our set actually went game 3 and he lost because I play palu which is a hard mu for icies and I also knew how to escape a lot of the desyncs. I didn’t know the loser of our set would play Zain otherwise I might have threw lmao

Zain should play against riddles to see how kazuya works

man all these guys are so cool, this podcast has made me actually interested in smash again

I would instantly gain motivation and take the game seriously again if it had rollback netcode. Multiversus really made me feel like i cant go back to smash online, its unusable garbage and i hate it lol.

zain sparking this wholesome smash collaboration is the content I didn't know I needed. Melee/ultimate dual bootcamp when?

I've always been of the opinion that Ultimate teaches neutral, and decision making much better than Melee. Melee teaches mechanical skill and mastery of a character over decision making and neutral. Melee's neutral is a lot more condensed as opposed to Ultimate's neutral. Frame traps, 50/50s, unique hitbox/hurtbox interactions, and option select is a lot more prevalent in Ultimate. I went from Ultimate to Melee and a lot of my neutral game has boiled down into habits so it's been a struggle converting back to Ultimate lmao. Loved Zain's comment on the differences between both games as it was spot on for me.

36:28 that Hbox impression was so good

11:50 where Zain talks about the inability to run through characters, that's one of the more important factors that help setup ledge trapping in Ultimate; I think of the biggest differences that separate from competitive Ultimate from competitive Melee beyond the technical standpoint. While Ultimate buffed recoveries so that you'll generally make it regardless of your character from the average hit that swats you off the stage, getting past the opponent back to center stage is a challenge; you can't just run past them and you have limited options in how to get off the ledge with rapidly dwindling time of invincibility. So the offstage game has a nice risk reward decision making where you can play it safe and ledge trap to build up damage or risk it all and edgeguard to take a stock, at the risk of losing your own. I think it's nice that Zain brought this up that Melee players aren't too interested in. Our Ultimate counterpart to this "game design preference" is the offstage wars in games like Multiversus where you have to spike the opponent a gazillion times to edgeguard them. Heck, the FGC's counterpart is how someone wailing on a shield in Smash Bros can easily get punished (so FGC players can't easily tell who is in the lead) unlike in a typical FGC game, doing a combo on a blocking character puts you in an advantageous state and the opponent must sit there and respect and hope an opening comes. And I enjoyed the question of Maister asking what it takes to win a major and part of Zain's response was adding flair to his playstyle which improves all aspects of his gameplay. Comparing Maister to Miya, Maister is a fundamentally sound GnW and has wins on players that have taken down Miya. Raflow comes to mind. But watching Miya, you can tell if he's playing on the screen without any need for a player camera or name tag by seeing a GnW choke out the opponent by his insane advantage state or immaculate ledgetrapping. He leaves no quarter, no breathing room, he's always hunting down the opponent. I am curious to see what style Maister aims to go for. I also wish he believed in his Sora. Oh well, fun video.

If the doubles goes 1-1, you should play rivals 2 or something

this ep was mad good