Dreams, Fairy Tales, and the Demons of AI | Jonathan Pageau | EP 364

These men when they get together are by far the best conversationalists going in this space. Very little ego, a lot of listening and sharing deep insight with a child like excitement. Amazing

I found Pageau in a Peterson Video. Now I follow Pageau more closely than Peterson. He really has helped me see the world with the collective wisdom of thousand-year traditions.

Oh my. The comments Jonathan made about Snow White being forced into hyper awareness of her own beauty instantly led me to understand a lot of things about someone. It became a tool that not only brought harm to her, but eventually one that she used to harm herself. And underlying is still innocence and confusion. It's been a sad situation. Thank you both for the insights.

I would give everything I own for a friendship like theirs. To be able to sit down for 2 hours and talk about the deeper meaning and hidden theology of traditional stories is not something you can do with very many people. I love these discussions. Thank you for taking us along with you on the journey.

You know its gonna be one hell of an interesting convo when Jonathan comes on

I think God has given wisdom to these two men, Dr. Jordan Peterson and Jonathan Pageau. I could listen to them all day long. This conversation about writing fairytales has just lit my brain on fire! I love it! I’m going to try and write one myself! Seriously….😊

As a child I was forever reading books. My aunt gave me an illustrated book of russian folklore stories and they were amazing. Full of adventure,darkness and lessons to be had abundant.

The way Wokism has torn these stories apart has left GENERATIONS of people HUNGRY for good stories such as these! Keep up the good work!

Dr. Peterson, I know it's been a while but I am delighted to see you back to your normal self. I was worried you wouldn't ever be the same after your health problems. But it's a miracle to have you back in great shape and I am glad you are back and you are doing a lot of things to further your message and your very positive influence for good and I we are blessed to live in the version of this world where you are still among us and doing what you are doing. I can't imagine anyone else being up to the task in quite the same way. The time you were gone from YouTube was a kind of dull and hopeless time, but I am glad that has come to an end and you are making such vibrant and inspiring content. Keep it up, you don't know how much we need you still and I am looking forward to all the great things you are yet to do. Thank you for your wonderful work.

So excited about these foundational stories by Jonathan Pageau. Great idea!

The Jonathan and Jordan conversations are always the best. Thank God for blessing us with such insights through you two. All the best.

7M subscribers!!! Congrats Jordan! You feel like a mentor and second father to me ❤ I felt lost before I found you. My father passed away in 2009. He would have loved you!

From Jonathan: Thanks for this great conversation, Jordan. For those who want to support our Snow White project: www.kickstarter.com/projects/symbolicworldpress/sn…

JP & JP!! I don’t know if it gets better than this?! Thank you both for your wisdom and bravery.

Hearing truth being spoken in a eloquent manner is always a beautiful experience. GOD Bless Dr.JBP

When I was 5 yrs old one of my favorite times was when my mom read me the fairy tales. I have an image of the book --- something like The TenGren Book of Fairy Tales. A largish book with a brownish hard cover. The stories to me at 5 were mysterious and satisfying. I hated for her to stop reading. It made me want to read on my own. I still remember the moment in 1st grade when I realized, "I know all the sounds so now I can sound out any word so now I can read anything by myself." Been a reader ever since, realizing more and more meanings.

The Foundational Stories are so important. It is sad we are loosing track of them in the modern world.

I like to listen to the conversations with Johnathan and Jordan because they respect each other's opinions and the conversation seems to flow, not be dominated by one side. 😊

The pain the mother feels while separated from her baby should be listened too. I am not convinced that you can be a role model for such a small child while being absent. All the baby knows is that you are leaving him. The love and attention from a mother cannot be replaced by a caregiver.

This was a truely beautiful, captivating and amazing discussion on fairy tales. While I currently also really enjoy the Exodus discussion, I would be very much interested to hear a similar conversation between Dr Peterson and other experts on these old European fairy tales, their similarities, differences, and meanings. For a bit of background, I grew up in Germany with the original Grimms Märchen (also Struwwelpeter, but that is a story for another time) and have been a big fan ever since I heard and read them over and over again as a small child. From a very young age, I was intrigued to learn more about these wonderful and formative stories and have always been disappointed by "kids-friendly versions" I saw in more modern books, on TV, or in movies. The Grimms' versions are, in fact, already sometimes tuned down from older, more gruesome stories - in my opinion they don't need more taming. I have to add that I myself do not have any formal knowledge or training in literature, however, I think it is interesting and important to see these fairytales in light of history and older versions of the same or similar stories. Though the brothers Grimm are famous for writing down the versions at the time in German, there have, of course, been previous, very similar versions of the same stories by Basile, Perrault, and others, reaching far back to stories on Zeus and probably even longer. Regarding "Dornröschen" aka "sleeping beauty", it is correct to say that in the Grimms version, the princess awakes by the kiss of the prince at the right time (as many others have died before in the rose bushes), however, in an earlier Italian version called "Sun, Moon, and Talia" in the "Pentamerone" by Basile, the prince comes across the sleeping beauty, is not able to wake her but nevertheless proceeds to "gather the first fruits of love" which leaves her pregnant with twins. He leaves, she unconsciously gives birth to a boy and a girl, who then accidentally suck on her finger instead of her breast and thus remove the splinter, and the beauty wakes up. The (in this version already married) prince returns and admits to being the father of the kids and an even more gruesome story enfolds with the wife coming into the picture. In Perrault's version, the Prince's Mother is the one not fond of her son's wife and kids, which gives the story version yet another twist. In general, I think the many different possibilities of interpretations of the aspect of the long sleep in this fairy tale are extremely interesting, spreading from teenagers naturally being disconnected from their parents to the cycle of seasons from sleeping winter into sunkissed spring. In the "Rapunzel" story - in many aspects a similar story of a girl becoming a woman in circumstances where parent figures try to prevent early contact or shield her from it but fail - also Rapunzel was pregnant from her prince, and couldn't hide it any longer when her clothes didn't fit her anymore. Interestingly, the woman and mother figure hiding her in the tower is not actually her birth mother, but a sorceress. In the German as well as the earlier Italian version of "Rapunzel" called "Petrosinella" by Basile, the mother of Rapunzel craves iron-rich food such as parsley (giving the name "Petrosinella" in the Italian version) or rapunzel (a salad green / root vegetable) during her pregnancy. The sorceress catches the thieves (sometimes the pregnant mother herself, sometimes her husband who can't resist his wife's cravings) trying to steal these plants from her garden and demands the unborn child in return. Interestingly, it is again not the prince who saves the princess. The sorceress sends Rapunzel and her twins into the desert/wilderness and tricks the prince, who, in shock, falls from the tower into the thorn bushes and becomes blind. However, after wandering around blind for years, eventually, he recognizes his Rapunzel by her voice and her tears heal his blindness. Anyway, these are my two cents. I am sure Mr. Pageau has himself looked into these heavily connected earlier versions of these powerful stories during his journey of creating his own versions of these and other fairy tales. I am very much looking forward to his work, and I thank Dr Peterson dearly for bringing this topic to my attention again.