Daemons, Demons, God, & the Meaning Crisis | Dr. John Vervaeke | EP 414

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Published 2024-01-15
Dr. Jordan B. Peterson sits down in person with Dr. John Vervaeke. They discuss the relationship between your calling and your conscience, the three dimensions of the sacred, how Descartes' famous “I think therefore I am” conclusion might be restructured in modern day, what exactly Socrates’s Daemon was, and the bridging of morality and meaning.

John Vervaeke is an Associate Professor in Cognitive Psychology and Cognitive Science at the University of Toronto. His work constructs a bridge between science and spirituality in order to understand the experience of meaningfulness and the cultivation of wisdom so as to afford awakening from the meaning crisis.

This episode was recorded on January 8th, 2024

Dr. Peterson's extensive catalog is available now on DailyWire+: bit.ly/3KrWbS8


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For Dr. John Vervaeke:

Youtube Channel youtube.com/user/johnvervaeke

After Socrates (Series)    • After Socrates | Premieres January 9t...  

The Vervaeke Foundation vervaekefoundation.org/

“Zombies in Western Culture: A Twenty-First Century Crisis” (book) www.amazon.com/Zombies-Western-Culture-Twenty-Firs…

"Mentoring the Machines: Orientation - Part One: Surviving the Deep Impact of the Artificially Intelligent Tomorrow" (Book) www.amazon.com/Mentoring-Machines-Orientation-Arti…


- Chapters -

(0:00) Coming up
(0:25) Intro
(1:42) 2024 plans, The Philosophical Silk Road
(5:33) The Vervaeke Foundation
(6:44) Cataloguing John’s body of work, AI
(9:02) Mentoring the Machine
(10:35) Staying virtuously oriented
(13:40) Entropy, perceptions, assumptions, and the sacred
(16:30) Hyper priors, indexing social standing for the proportionality of response to negative stimuli
(18:35) The divine lies deeper, calling and conscience
(23:30) Three dimensions of the sacred
(26:16) There is either a unity or a plurality
(27:30) “The One” grounds out in effability
(28:56) Love comes from a feeling of “realness”
(30:00) Healing and the Gospels
(31:33) Piaget, Descartes, systems of insight
(34:54) Thought is a form of secularized prayer
(41:07) Nothing within or without
(43:45) Humility and resolution
(45:16) The landscape of the soul, parallels to Dante’s Inferno
(48:00) Idolatry, using hurt to smite pretensions
(49:41) Conscience and the ineffable
(54:11) Vervaeke’s Daemons
(57:32) The appearance of Hermes, transjective presence
(59:48) Embracing the relationship
(1:05:06) The eye at the top of the pyramid,
(1:09:48) When a text is inevitably transformative
(1:14:52) Sacred but not the One, searching for ultimacy
(1:19:36) A metaphysical concern with evil
(1:21:50) Plato’s pivot problem
(1:25:02) Job’s proposition
(1:27:36) Joe Versus the Volcano
(1:30:09) Why we disassociate from meaning, morality, and being
(1:32:31) For love or duty, morality and ethics
(1:36:37) Restoration of the religio without traditional organization


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All Comments (21)
  • @patmaloney5735
    We are living in an era where everyone can attend epictetus' lectures or hear Lao Tzu speak. We shoukd be so immensely grateful
  • @MrEgelados
    Following John Vervaeke's work over the years is like watching a reality show of someone going through an enlightenment process.
  • @MrDMR1
    I’m a Catholic priest and have a bit of theology under my belt. John Vervaeke is VERY well read and informed. I love the fact he quotes Nicholas of Cusa and the principle of paradox. This is serious and cutting edge Christian thought. GREAT convo!
  • @memopinzon
    Goes without saying that Vervaeke's series "Awakening From The Meaning Crisis" and "After Socrates" are absolutely worth anyone's time and cannot be recommended enough.
  • Anytime Jordan Peterson and John Vervaeke get together it’s magic 🪄 ❤️
  • @MTech07
    I’m too stupid and poorly-read to grasp more than 40% of what they discussed, but I have enough unconscious wisdom to realize this was very very profound. I’m grateful that I have a life ahead to catch up and try to understand. Thanks you both for keep brining meaning to us. I sincerely wish you nothing but a profound adventure. Thank you.
  • @sylvanbear7125
    I used to think that Jordan and John were rivals, probably because John remained in the university, also because Jordan seemed to have regarded Jung more highly than John did. Now I see that they are collaborators, operating on distinct but parallel tracks. One thing is for sure, each is very highly read and competent in the arts of research. We must all benefit from their gracious sharing in this public forum.
  • @bendadestroyer
    This is a fantastic discussion. I realized I am Jobe. In the last couple of years I lost my grandmother, my childhood home, my wife, and I struggled for a year to get a job, let alone one in my field (marketing). Through these hardships, I maintain my rose-tinted perspective overlooking the world. In your exodus discussion, you speak about the Jews breaking their covenant with God, but God maintains his side of the covenant. This is the approach I am taking with my wife while we are separated. After all, if God is the ultimate good, and that is what we should aim for, then I'm doing the right thing by continuing to love and honor my wife. Yesterday, her car battery died. She called me on my day off while she was at the apartment of her emotional affair (she doesn't know I know). She tried to pay me $50, but I refused. I didn't change the battery out of debt, ego, or to prove a point. I changed the battery because she is my wife, and I will always provide for her when possible. She took a piece of my soul with her, but I'm so thankful for small moments.
  • @junjunjarjarbinx
    Literally my favorite conversation from Jordan Peterson. Two heavyweight intellectuals talking about the nature of reality
  • @JoshWiniberg
    Vervaeke brings out the very best in Peterson. These are the conversations that, like the best books, you can come back to time after time and discover something new in it. More like this please!
  • @JackVogel2024
    Jordan almost falling off the chair in awe-inspiring recognition by John's precise description of rudimental inner workings. Gotta love it. Anyway, this is one of those rare moments where the host complements the guest in such a manner that a creation more expansive than the sum of its parts takes place.
  • @pi1810
    You have no idea how fundamentally and profoundly this discussion has affected me. Thank you from the bottom of my heart.
  • @balauhnvbalvbjv
    These two need a joint lecture series, easily my 2 favourite intellectuals right now
  • This is the /only/ conversation thread that matters to me. The only two people who seem to fully grasp the metaphysics, philosophy, and psychology of our time, and are actively working to repair it. Keep pursuing that golden thread, I'm sure you'll be entwined together for awhile.
  • @susancullom3508
    How blessed to be "a fly on the wall" for this conversation, talk about gratitude 🙏
  • The world needs more podcasts with Dr P and Dr V together, let alone with/alongside other UofT psychologists; this was top notch content gentlemen!
  • @bobfalconer
    WONDERFUL WONDERFUL one of the most stimulation and exciting conversations. Vervaeke's courage in discussing his visions and his dialogues with Hermes is so powerful. there are many of us with experiences like these who never speak of them for fear of ridicule. THANK YOU
  • @mr.clean419
    I digest Dr. Peterson frequently. His lecture series, his new podcast, live in-person when i can, etc. And yet this conversation is leaving me in awe a little bit. Can't yet explain it.