Evolution and the Challenges of Modern Life | Bret Weinstein and Heather Heying | EP 216

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Published 2022-01-10
This episode was recorded on October 5th, 2021.

Podcasters and evolutionary biology power-couple Bret Weinstein and Heather Heying join me to discuss a variety of topics related to their new book, A Hunter-Gatherer’s Guide to the 21st Century. We explore topics like niche-switching, what Darwin got wrong, Twitter, sources for modern values, hyper-novelty, the aftermath of progress, parenthood, and sexual selection – just to name a few.
Bret Weinstein and Heather Heying are evolutionary biologists, former Evergreen State College professors, and the current hosts of the DarkHorse podcast. You may also know Bret through Joe Rogan, or as the twice-moderator for Jordan’s debates with Sam Harris.
The couple’s book, titled “A Hunter-Gatherer’s Guide to the 21st Century: Evolution and the Challenges of Modern Life,” asks why the most prosperous age in history has scarcely offset suicide rates, tribal division, loneliness, and human misery.

Follow Bret at:
twitter.com/BretWeinstein
And Heather at:
twitter.com/HeatherEHeying
The DarkHorse Podcast:
bretweinstein.net/podcast

A Hunter-Gatherer’s Guide to the 21st Century: Evolution and the Challenges of Modern Life:
amazon.com/gp/product/B08VF32DXK/ref=dbs_a_def_rwt…

______________
Shownotes
______________
[00:00] Intro
[00:30] Guests’ background
[01:32] A Hunter-Gatherer’s Guide to the 21st Century – why they wrote it
[04:30] “Values might not be [scientifically] defensible. Taken to the extreme, it might be hard to explain why existing is better than not" - Bret Weinstein
[05:07] “We believe that any credible 'ought' needs to be scientifically informed" - BW
[05:45] Learning to negotiate hyper-novelty in the modern world. The extremely fast rate of progress and change
[06:56] “The amazing rate of change we’ve created is itself deranging us and making it very difficult to understand and remember how to be human” - Heather Heying
[08:18] “It's not that progress is bad – the benefit of progress is often tremendous, but it almost always comes with important unintended consequences” - BW
[09:26] Our incredible ability to adapt by “niche-switching”
[15:41] Unintended consequences & modern sleeping
[22:45] Twitter as a giant social experiment; what happens when you can (sort of) communicate with everyone?
[25:22] “If people treated each other the way they do on Twitter, they’d get beaten up with enough regularity to stop them. So the net effect [might make us] nicer, right?” - BW
[25:47] The importance of nonverbal communication; physical and chemical ways humans communicate
[29:57] Small talk, gaging social skills, and nonverbal cues
[31:28] “Small talk lets you take a room’s temperature–literally and metaphorically" - Heather Heying
[32:35] Objections to evolutionary theory: A critique of some key Darwinian tenets
[38:28] Play & Evolution
[42:08] Intelligence in mate selection amongst bowerbirds
[53:12] How Heather conceptualizes male/female status hierarchies
[55:57] Sex, gender, and how they’re linked
[01:06:44] The Hero's journey and the importance of new storytelling
[01:13:42] The adaptive valley picture in evolutionary biology
[01:13:46] “I'm trying to update our understanding of stories rather than the stories themselves" - Jordan Peterson
[01:21:29] podcasts & collective listening
[01:27:26] Parenting & Children
[01:27:46] “Children will destroy your life and replace it with a better one" - BW
[01:28:52] Parenting & Relationships
[01:30:03] Wrapping up

#Biology #Evolution #Gender #Pârenting #Darwin


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All Comments (21)
  • @timcoolican459
    Seven years ago, I wouldn't be caught dead listening to three intellects like this. The fact that I could follow along with much of what they were saying, is even more incredible. I am not highly educated. I barely passed primary education, as I have worked full-time since I was 14 years old...until my debilitating accident in 2014. During my recovery, I took to watching interesting videos on YouTube. Something that was easier to do while languishing in a hospital bed. This is where I found Jordan Peterson, as well as his seemingly infinite archive of lectures. More recently, this is where I also found Heather & Brett. So, while I was rehabilitating, watching endless strings of cat videos and selfie style channels, my mind began to turn as numb as my legs. Turning towards more intellectual videos, I found Mr. Peterson. He was, and still is, a fascinating speaker. He was just as passionate about what he was teaching, as he was intellectually proficient...or so I surmised...cause 'what the hell do I know', as Peterson has often lament. Back to the point of my comment, it is precisely because of people like this that I could awaken to a larger world of knowledge, where I would obviously not have, if not for my physical demise, technological advancement, cat videos, and videos that Jordan, Heather, & Brett keep producing. Thank you very much...all three of you...for what you do.
  • @Motivatedk9
    If it wasn't for Dr Petersons books and lectures online my life would be much worse off. As a fifty year old father of two daughters, I've learned more from him than I had ever learned in school. He helped me through some of the hardest times in my life without even knowing it. Dr Peterson, I owe you my life Sir
  • I am so lucky to have been born in 1955, there were years of my life when people were not afraid to offend with conversation, this conversation reminds me of the days when people really talked.
  • So I've just listened to a 90-minute discussion incredibly packed with hardcore scientific and philosophical ideas of arguably tremendous complexity and I'm leaving literally with a smile on my face and an uplifting feeling in my soul. It sounds very strange to me when put that way, but it is true and so I think you were doing something right there and I was doing something right listening to this, so thank you very much for doing this. It is an incredibly engaging and informative episode, one of the best in my opinion. I hope that that discussion with the couple's undergraduate advisor will happen, if it hasn't happened yet, and will be posted soon cause it sounded like it might be a good one too. Anyway, cheers all the way from Slovakia, Dr. Peterson.
  • "The prefrontal cortex grew out of the motor cortex ... evolved to abstract out patterns of abstraction ... so they can be dispensed with before being acted on ... so that WE CAN HAVE OUR IDEAS DIE INSTEAD OF US" My mind is blown
  • @kenkeyes8148
    It's a travesty what Evergreen College did to these two thoughtful and tender souls. Their loss is our gain.
  • @cawile
    There is something really magical about witnessing these conversations unfold. I especially love when JPB says to them, “you guys should really talk to Jonathan Pageau”.
  • When Dr Petersons says "so let's just talk about the birds" and with these three you know you'll learn and 5 minutes later you'll look at yourself and everyone differently from before ahah. Love it. Thanks to the three of you!
  • Thank you for hosting Bret and Heather. I've been looking forward to hearing this conversation. -Written by Dave the clips guy
  • Three good friends getting together, having rich conversations. Such a delight to witness. Thank you all three of you!
  • @sixduece222
    As a new parent I really appreciated the discussion about not discouraging "Play" surrounding other genders. I have really been pondering how to handle that. This was a very impactful intellectual discussion. God bless you Jordan Peterson!!!!!
  • @jennbradley3966
    I love Heather's voice. She should start a channel where she reads classic literature.
  • @rutherford5619
    "Children will destroy your life and replace it with a better one" Bret that's oscar worthy
  • @pamjedlicka8451
    Once again, as I trudge through the darkness of what is considered 'our society,' I am uplifted by Jordan Peterson and his incredible guests Heather and Bret Weinstein. It's often been said that listening to these dialogues is akin to sitting in on a post-grad level lecture and this conversation is no different. I am so grateful for this type of intellectual content. It's like cool water in the desert.
  • @margriethover1
    These conversations have helped me so much to survive in these dystopian times. Thank you so much for sharing.
  • @danmarks5791
    The amount of enrichment I've received from these 3 individuals is amazing. Thank you all for the work you do in helping individuals learn and improve their lives
  • @Blobbybobbyboy
    Jordan's note on how positive his YouTube comments can get was spot on. There are some corners of the Web that are horrible, but when people get a glimpse of something that comes from the heart and is honest it brings the best out of them, and we yearn to reach out and connect in this way (or so I like to think)
  • I NEVER comment on videos, but can't not do it this time. This was such a thoroughly enjoyable conversation to listen to. Listening to the 3 of you is a priveledge, an encouragement, and an education. I wish you'd continued your discussion for hours:) Thank you for sharing you minds with us!
  • @S.A.N.503
    I found Bret and Heather about a year ago at the beginning of the covid nonsense, and im happy to see a lot of what they were warning, be taken seriously. Finally! Absolutely love it when Jordan teams up for a conversation. Just live it.
  • These three people have been a greater force of growth and positive change in my life than all my previous teachers and leaders combined. God bless them!